And Illuminate is effectively the fourth thing that I've done, in that journey. But effectively, the arc is I was the consumer or frequent non consumer of these kinds of technologies. And then I was on the entrepreneurial side of the fence. And then I was the operator and funder. And effectively, that's four different sets of, vantage points with four different sets of lessons that we've kind of baked into the illuminate model. So in turn, I was thirteen years at Deutsche Bank, where I was a fixed income derivative trader originally, and ended up as chief operating officer of their two largest then derivative trading businesses, Global Rates and Global Credit.