...founder. And so if both are doing right, and it never happens, but if they're doing right, a founder as an operator, as a governance person might look at the job that they're doing and be like, I suck as CEO. Really, we should hire somebody who is mo

...a founder as an operator, as a governance person might look at the job that they're doing and be like, I suck as CEO. Really, we should hire somebody who is more appropriate for this stage of the company. And investors are more used to that sort of c