...stages. One is the first phase is where they have not really even decided to be a founder. I just think they're high quality, and I'm hoping that they will get there one day. The second phase is kind of the founder curious phase, and this is a really

...get the timing of them right, are the area where you as a VC win and compete. And I think a lot of winning and competing is targeting that timeline correctly and understanding the signals and being the person walking the founder or the future founder